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shell rot?
Posted: 23/03/2009 by tobiesmum

was just reading through some old posts and read one concerning moly and a case of flaky shell, and it made me wonder if Daisy has shell rott. there is a small section on one of her scutes that is white and you can see tiny layers. you can see it a little bit on the photos in the members gallery. can you see it and what do you think?

Re: shell rot?
Posted: 23/03/2009 by tpgNina

Hi,

I think I see what you mean, but it might just be a reflection of the light on her shell that I'm looking at. Can you get a good quality close-up photo of the area?

Nina

Re: shell rot?
Posted: 23/03/2009 by tobiesmum

she is asleep at the mo and i have just got a new laptop so will take me a while to figure it out, will try and take photos and post tomo. there is one picture that i think you can see it a little clearer

Re: shell rot?
Posted: 23/03/2009 by tpgNina

Thanks, Tobiesmum. She is probably fine, but it never hurts to have something checked out, just in case.

Nina

Re: shell rot?
Posted: 23/03/2009 by tobiesmum

am trying to upload pics but cant, think they too big i had this problem last time

Re: shell rot?
Posted: 23/03/2009 by tpgadmin

If you send your pics to me if you can't make them small enough I'll upload them for you.  Send them to helen@tortoise-protectiongroup.org.uk

HTH

Helen

Re: shell rot?
Posted: 24/03/2009 by tobiesmum

hi, thanks again for doing this for me. have up loaded most of the photos i have of Daisy and one of her enclosure i think, i have just got a new lap top so hopefully will be able to do it myself eventually. unfortunately the pics are not that clear, my camera pixelates when i zoom in too much, new camera next i think. hope it is nothing serious i have had her just under two months i think so it would prob be the time that things start going wrong and underlying problems show up. hope you will be ale to tell am worried about her, there are actually two areas of concern one at the front of her shell and one between the scutes towards the back. hope you can make it out. neither of them are soft and and the one at the front is not flaky it just looks like a white patch of shell, it has been there for over a week and has not changed shape or got any bigger, the one at the back looks a little flaky but does not come off. any ideas?

Re: shell rot?
Posted: 24/03/2009 by tpgNina

Hi,

Which album are the new photos in? I've looked at the album called Daisy, and it seems to be the same four photos that were there yesterday (but maybe I misunderstood about the new photos).

Nina

Re: shell rot?
Posted: 24/03/2009 by tpgadmin

Hi Nina

I have them on my pc and will upload them later.  Just got in.

Helen

Re: shell rot?
Posted: 24/03/2009 by tpgadmin

The pictures are added to Daisy's album now, but some of them are not too clear; so I'm not sure if you will be able to tell.

BTW the pics were all of a good size for uploading so no adjustments were required.  Next time yo want to upload some get in touch and I'll talk you through how to do it.

Helen

Re: shell rot?
Posted: 25/03/2009 by tobiesmum

any ideas? do you think my description sounds like  shell rott? i know pictures are not clear but really need some advice if it is shell rott i need to sort it asap. please will someone msg back!!

Re: shell rot?
Posted: 25/03/2009 by tpgadmin

I'm afraid I can't tell from the pictures sorry Click and drag me down to the editor.  I think what I would advise is that you make an appointment ro see the vet, but it definitely should be an exotics specialist.  In this way you will know exactly what you are dealing with.  It could be, of course, where the shell has rubbed on some sharp surface and not shell rot.

Do you have any tamodine?  If so I should be tempted to scrub the area with diluted tamodine using a soft tooth brush at bath time.  This will ensure that any bacteria being harboured there is killed off.  If you haven't any tamodine you can order it online.  I'm not sure what others might recommend.

Helen

Re: shell rot?
Posted: 25/03/2009 by tobiesmum

ok will give the tamodine a try before i take to vet as there consultations are soooo expensive, hope that doesnt make me sound like a bad keeper but 30 before you walk in the door is extortinate (soz bout spelling) can you get it anywhere else, ie a chemist ect so i can start treatment earlier.

Re: shell rot?
Posted: 26/03/2009 by tortoise7

Hi Tobiesmum
I am Molly's mum Click and drag me down to the editor Helen advised me to use Tamodine which I did and do,  and Molly's shell is starting to get some new growth coming through, so it does work.

Good Luck
Jane

Re: shell rot?
Posted: 26/03/2009 by tobiesmum

hi thanks for messaging me, i went round all the chemists today and could only get betadine paint. it says it is an alcoholic solution of povidone-iodine usp 10%. do you think this will work? i have put some on today it is a bit think and has a consistincy similar to clear nail varnish and looks a bit like tea. will give daisy a bath tomo and scrub it off and then apply some more. how long did it take to see any improvements?

Re: shell rot?
Posted: 26/03/2009 by tpgNina

Hi,

I've never used betadine, but I think you are supposed to dilute it (is it one in ten?) so that it looks like weak tea. Someone who has more experience than I do will come on and correct me if I'm wrong.

Nina

Re: shell rot?
Posted: 26/03/2009 by tobiesmum

hi thanks for response, it is already dilluted it is in a little 8ml bottle with a brush to apply it. thats all i could find, if the general consensus is that it will be no good i will ask the vet and see if they stock tamodine. i removed the flaky shell towards the rear of her shell and a fairly big piece came away, there doesnt seem to be any more that wants to come off is that ok? 

Re: shell rot?
Posted: 26/03/2009 by ElaineTPG

You may want to google dry shell rot as you are going to treat something that youreally aren't quite sure the tort has or not. Betadine 10%, you are looking for 1% like Nina says 1 in 10 ml of water, it will look like weak tea. When I used it on a dry shell rot I was told by the vet to paint it on, i used an old pastry brush, let it dry for 10mins then rinse. This area will be tender so go carful. If it is too strong it can then act as an irritant to the new tissue and can slow down healing which can leave the wound open to infection. So PLEASE keep in mind that it is a strong medication that you are using.


Take care


Elaine

Re: shell rot?
Posted: 26/03/2009 by tobiesmum

hi thanks for response. from what ive read and seen am convinced that it is dry shell rot. will dilute the betadine from now on then. will this work ok or should i get the tamodine instead. like i said i removed the flaky shell and a piece came away very easily, it is about half inch long and 5ml wide between the scutes. how long will it take to heal or notice any difference

Re: shell rot?
Posted: 26/03/2009 by tobiesmum

Re: shell rot?
Posted: 26/03/2009 by tobiesmum

dont know if that helps, it is shiny coz of the betadine

Re: shell rot?
Posted: 26/03/2009 by tortoise7

Hi
I tried to get betadine liquid but was told that they have stopped dispensing it now, and only have the ointment. Where did you get it from?
Thanks
Jane


 


 

Re: shell rot?
Posted: 26/03/2009 by tobiesmum

the co-operative pharmacy. it was 1.80 for 8ml bottle.

Re: shell rot?
Posted: 26/03/2009 by ElaineTPG

Sorry the picture I can't see it. There is just a small box with a red cross in it. I'm not good at loading pictures, yet ANOTHER 'to do' thing.

TC

Elaine

Re: shell rot?
Posted: 26/03/2009 by tobiesmum

sorry bout picture, i thought it would just open on the post list it does on mine.

Re: shell rot?
Posted: 26/03/2009 by tpgNina

Hi Elaine,

Are the photos you are trying to see in the album? It's an album called Daisy, in the Members Photo gallery.
Tobiesmum, I really think you need to take Daisy to a good tortoise vet to get this properly diagnosed. I am feeling uncomfortable talking about the betadine, etc. when we are not even sure if it is shell rot, and I do think you should get a proper diagnosis, as if it is something else then a different treatment could be called for.

Nina

Nina

Re: shell rot?
Posted: 27/03/2009 by tobiesmum

i have made an appointment for daisy at the vet today at 12, so fingers crossed that they can help, will let you know tonight. we have got a bit of sun today so she is in her new garden enclosure she seems happy.

Re: shell rot?
Posted: 27/03/2009 by tpgadmin

Fingers crossed all is OK with Daisy.  It's really difficult to tell over the Internet what is wrong so it's always better to get an exotics expert to check even if it is only to reassure you and tell you what you are already doing is fine.  Keep us informed of what your vet has to say.

Helen

Re: shell rot?
Posted: 27/03/2009 by ElaineTPG

I'm pleased that you are taking her to the vets, she is so loved by you, it comes over in your posts, so at least by doing this you will know for sure and be able to treat it so as she benefits from our LONG HOT SUMMER!

Looking forward to reading the outcome later.

TC

Elaine Click and drag me down to the editor

Re: shell rot?
Posted: 27/03/2009 by tobiesmum

hi all, daisy was a good girl at the vets, came out of her shell to have a nosey arround and was letting everyone scratch her head, think she had a great time.


the vet said that it is old shell rot and nothing to worry about she had a good look at her shell and said that it had probably been there for sometime and now decided to show its self.  as i do not know about her history it is hard to say why she has got it. she said it was nice and dry and that it wouldnt get any worse. does that make sense? she said that i could use the betadine to make sure she doesnt an infection. they use a 7% sollution and mine is 10% but she said that is fine.


the vet said that her scutes were a bit bumpy but that was prob caused by bad husbandry before she came to me. she also said that she was flatter that other ones she had seen  but that may have been caused due to a poor start. she only has three toes on her back feet but they are starting to grow back, apparantly this could be caused by a poor substrate and her constantly pushing with her back legs and has warn it away. 


daisy was also wieghed today and she weighs 312 grams and measures 11 cm, i was told that her weight is slightly above average but the vet used the jackson ratio to work this out and i thought that could only be used with hermans.


so that is basically it. what does everyone think. should i continue with the betadine to avoid infection ect. does what the vet said sound right

Re: shell rot?
Posted: 27/03/2009 by ElaineTPG

This has put my mind at rest so I'm sure you are far more happier with it all now. If Daisy were mine I would continue with the 1:10% mix, just giving it a clean with it, allowing it to dry for 10mins then a rinse off just to make sure all is ok. A week of  doing this and see what you think then. Once the weather heats up the shell will beging to grow and harden, she is young and now has a healthy life ahead of her in your hands, torts meand slowly but they do mend. The one I had with the shell rot took a good couple of years but she was very bad. She had been left with far stronger males and far too many of them, poor love. You are correct regarding the JR not for Daisy torts. Because her history is not know it might be worth taking a faecal sample in at some point then you would be sure that all the goodness of the diet you are giving her is being absorbed by her.


Bet you never ever thought one little shelled creature could be so time consuming!


WELCOME to the world of tortoise keeping Click and drag me down to the editor,


Elaine

Re: shell rot?
Posted: 27/03/2009 by tobiesmum

your right i didnt bless her but wouldnt be without her, when we took her to the vet my daughter (tobie) who is nearly 3 was sooooo worried about her she was in the waiting room with nana and i could hear her crying "bring my daisy back she my torty i love her" and when we came out she we was so happy and demanded on carrying the box all the way home.


so do you think the weight is ok, she does love her food and she eats about 6 leaves of dandelion a day and some florett she eats for about 10 mins constant in the morning. are mushrooms ok for torts she does like them she has a slice once a week

Re: shell rot?
Posted: 27/03/2009 by tortoise7

Thanks for that tobiesmum, at least  know it is available if needed. I was obviously trying the wrong chemists- Boots Superdrugs.
Really glad to hear that it was good news for Tobie. 
Jane 

Re: shell rot?
Posted: 28/03/2009 by TPGDarren

Hi Tobiesmum,

You're quite right the Jackson ratio shouldn't be used for Horsfields at all. So long as she has a slow steady growth she'll be fine:-)

I wouldn't be inclined to give her mushrooms though as it isn't something they would come across in the wild at all. There are a few species that do eat mushrooms, Redfoots, Yellowfoots and other tortoises that come from humid environments.

Glad she's on the mend

TC
Darren

 

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