This subject scares me, has done and will even more so now I have heard another member lost 6 during hibernation.

I realise that many tortoises are hibernated with no problems but theres always that risk, I dont think I am prepared to take that risk :(
I understand that something could have happened with the fridge temps so how can you be sure that your tort is safe?

My Teddy is 6months so I do have plenty of time to research,
do we have to Hibernate a Tort? and why? what are the long term problems for not hibernating? Thanks Claire&Teddy

Hi Claire
Don't get too worried about hibernation just yet, just enjoy Teddy. What age to hibernate is a huge subject, as I have found out by speaking to several people. I went by the general rule of hibernate when I felt confident enough and had read loads. There are some very experienced people on this site that will be giving you advice all the way, just keep asking questions questions until you feel that you are ready. Regards to hibernation I have had quite interesting and varied conversations about why hibernation is or not beneficial to the tortoise, one being that hibernation is for reproductive purposes only and if you are not going to breed them then you are not doing them any harm (This is only repeating what was said to me by a vet not my feelings on the subject) then another view is, wait until they are at least 5yrs old and their body weight is more stable, or they need to hibernate to rest the organs as they have such a long life, it helps to regulate growth. Now I really have opened a can of worms but it will be interesting to read others views!! Personally I don't think anyone is wrong in what they choose they do, the main objective is that the tortoise is kept healthy and safe.
Jane, Keya & Molly

Thanks Jane :) I had read somewhere that Hibenation aids the reproductive system. There was a thread on SW about this when I read it there were big issues between the posters lol..So I didnt join it, Im not one to argue on these things. I orefer to keep out of it and make my own mind up ;)

You on FB? Id like to add you :)

Hi Claire
Wise decision that is what I do, you have to do what suits you best!!

Jane, Keya & Molly

Hi Claire,

Jane is right, confidence is required.  I am very much a believer in providing as natural as possible experience for my tortoises and for me this includes a period of hibernation. I've said elsewhere that I lost one of my tortoises early into hibernation last year. This was due to an undeteceted illness, confirmed by post mortem. This is not a justification for the death, it was a mistake by me. As a result I've spent countless hours researching the physical and physiological processes involved in hbernation. As a result I've sucessfully hibernated 18 tortoise and 5 box turtles this year without issue. This includes four Horsfields of 60-70 grams who hibernated for 18 weeks and lost a gram each from the start of their winddown.

I was probably quite vocal on the hibernation discussion on the other forum  but I'd be happy to share my hibernation findings and experiences this year and how I've done it differently from previous years based on what I've learned. When I get a moment I'll write it all down!

Hi Dave, Thanks for your reassurance on this subject :) I think you're both right, confidence is the key. As you know I am new to owning a tortoise and still have lots to learn. I have learned a lot already. When I started out I knew hardly anything.
So you have hibernated torts weighting 60-70gs, wow, my Teddy weighs 60gs, Is she ready for hibernating then? I realise too late now as it's waking up time for some ;) Would I be able to do it next winter time. She's 6months now. I had read that you had lost one last year, Oh thats sad! sorry to hear that. How did that make you feel? I guess it makes you learn from it, You wasn't to know.
I did see the discussion yes on the other forum lol ;)..Sometimes you have to be vocal to be heard. I know there are a few, theres one in particular that likes to be "Heard" lol..Thats ok we all have our own way of doing things.
I'd very much love to hear your findings and experiences. That would be fantastic, My brain is like a sponge at the moment :) so am happy to learn more. Especially from those whom have a vast amount of experience and success. Thanks again Dave

Hi Claire,

I have to completely agree with Dave. The hibernation process isn't just a period of rest there are also biological & chemical changes that take place during hibernation. As you said, it certainly does stimulate reproduction, which is an indication within itself of the importance of hibernation in that it is completely natural and an important part of keeping things natural. We've had literally 100s of successful hibernations. Only a few years ago we hibernated tortoises for friends and had over 70 tortoise in the fridge (big fridge). We've only ever lost one tortoise in hibernation; a three year old tortoise that we'd hand fed because she hatched out blind. She was actually responsive coming out of the fridge, but never woke up properly....a bad decision to hibernate on our behalf. We were absolutely gutted, particularly Steph, who'd virtually hand-reared her - though to be honest without the special care she'd had for 3 years, she would never have survived. There is no reason why hibernating species should have any trouble at all with hibernation; providing they are healthy, have gained sufficient weight during the summer, have been wound down properly and the hibernation environment is right. If all these boxes are ticked there shouldn't be a problem at all. We've 37 in the fridge at the moment - all doing well. The lightest we've ever hibernated was around 16g (from memory) - though we tend to try and wait until they're around the 30g mark - but not always:-).

HTH
Darren

Hope you don't mind me joining in but I've just been reading the posts and noticed that Dave hibernated a Horsefield for 18 weeks. Exactly how long can you hibernate them for?, does it come down to what weight is lost. I've just got my Horsefield up after 12 weeks, in total she lost 17gs, could she of stayed in longer or was I right in getting her up when I did.

Hi Winnie,

12 weeks is fine, there are a lot of factors as to why I allowed the Horsfields 18 weeks, most of the decisions were made by them based on the temperatures and day length they were receiving. I'll go into detail another time. Weight loss is always a factor to be considered when deciding when to end a hibernation.

Incidentally, in the wild, Horsfields can hibernate for 6 months or more, they are also exposed to extreme heat during the summer which causes them to burrow below ground for long periods in a state called estivation, very similar to hibernation. This results in wild Horsfields having an annual activity period of 3 months or less in the wild. These are things I consider when hibernating tortoises and how I allow them to behave the rest of the year. I've quickly learned that Horsfields are tough little tortoises!

Hi Dave,

That's one of the reasons I was asking for because I was reading through a book and seen how long in the wild they hibernate for. Do you think fridge hibernations could go on for that length of time?. Trying to figure it out in my head and I must admit I can see pro's and con's for both short and long hibernation.

Trying to do things as close to nature as possible is admirable but I think there have to be limits. Little is known about wild hibernating tortoises, we do not know the fatalities that take place during a long hibernation. I would consider 20 weeks at the very top end of hibernation length for a captive Horsfield tortoise. Hermann's tortoise less (I try to give mine 12-14 weeks).

A completely stable fridge temperatures of 5 degrees C would need to be maintained. The tortoise is still producing waste products whilst in hibernation, these are not expelled from the body but stored in the bladder. The metabolism is barely ticking over at 5 degrees C so the waste production is at its lowest, at slightly higher temperatures it becomes more active, producing more waste. So the same time length at a slightly higher temperature could produce a toxic level of waste products for the tortoise.

I personally think that allowing the tortoise to dig into a deep soil substrate during its hibernation assists the whole process and prevents dehydration. In the past I've seen tortoises regain their hibernation "weight" loss within a day or two of awakening. I've put this down to the tortoises dehydrating slightly in hibernation (rather than the burning of "fat"stores) and the "weight" is recooperated through drinking. This year all my tortoises were given access to soil, all dug into it to some degree and weight loss has been minimal.  The exception was one Hermanns who left hibernation early. My tortoises are free to leave their hibernation quarters and this one was wondering around at barely above 10 degrees. This tortoise had reached 10% loss, was bathed and allowed to bask and was back to prewinddown weight (a gain of 40 grams!) within 48 hours.

A word about my method this year.  My indoor quarters for my Med tortoises and boxies are in my loft. Often the loft is thought to be a bad place for tortoises because of the temperature variants. With insulation and a lot of heating options I have been able to overcome this. The ambient temperature up there is about 3 degrees above the outdoor temperature. This has allowed me to extend the summer and gradually replicate autumn and winter conditions. The tortoises were indoors from September.

The hides the tortoises have are large, allowing for a deep soil substrate, full insulation and a tubular heater on a thermostat in the roof.  The additional night time heating encouraged the tortoises into a routine of returning to the hide each night.

September- I gradually took the temperatures down in the hide's using the thermostat. The Horsfields disappeared, only occasionally surfacing to bask and not eating at all. The Hermanns continued to bask and feed under the same conditions. The day temperature on the stat was still around 20 degrees so they were able to "wind down" in the hides. They were only taken out to be bathed.  By early October, the thermostat for the Horsfields was turned down to five degrees ( I had been finding them dug into the coldest areas of their enclosure, away from the supplimental heating), for the Hermanns it was gradually turned down to 5 degrees C through to December. They stopped feeding in November (food was offered but ignored) and started to bask less frequently, often spending days dug into their hides.

All the tortoises have hibernated fine through the winter, 48 hours of mild weather in early Feb brought 4 Hermanns out of their own accord. I then began to raise the temperature gradually in the hides, and at about 15 degrees (day) and 10 degrees (night) they all emerged. I turned on all the lights from the emergence of the first tortoise so they could bask and feed. This was a nice smooth return to activity, I feel.

This might not work for everyone, they may not even agree with leaving the option to feed, bask, wind down and hibernate to the tortoise and  it really is just my attempt to keep it natural. The normal method's of wind down and hibernation are tried and tested and equally sucessful.

What I found interesting was that the "cues" for hibernation behaviour varied from species to species. Hermanns and Horsfields reacted differently to temperatures and (artificial) day lengths and light levels.  Box turtles were different again.

I saw a lot of queries on forums around October about inactive and non eating tortoises. They were all Horsfields and I believe they were preparing themselves for hibernation. I think they respond to a different set of hibernation cues to other tortoises.

That'll do for now!

Hi Dave,

That's gone right over my head but that may be down to the fact that this has been my first ever hibernation. I'm hoping that over time I will understand it a lot more and find it a lot easier. My Horsefield didn't dig down and bury herself, even though her soil/sand was deep enough, she seemed intent to sit on the top in a little pit she'd made and she wouldn't sleep at 5c, I had to take the temp a little lower to between 3-4c. I was quite worried about the temp being lower then 5c but it seemed to work for her as she went to sleep alot quicker and as far as I can tell it doesn't seem to have had any adverse effects (thank god!). Since she's been up (woken on 16/2 weighing 330g) she's been getting daily baths and her appetite has come good. She now weighs 366g. This is heavier then before hibernation weight which was 347g, not to sure if that is a good thing though. At first I thought the hibernation part of owning a tort was more hassle then it was worth but it didn't take me long to realise that it was my own doings making it that way. If I had of been better prepared things would of gone more smoothly. The actual hibernation I found quite stress free but I feel a lot of this was down to the tortoise herself as she seemed to be a bit of a pro and sailed through it with no probs at all.

I have to say, the best bit about hibernating Queenie..........it had to be the look on peoples faces when they asked me how my tort was and I replied "oh she's fine, she's in the fridge". You couldn't put a price on the reactions I recieved, ha.

Hi winnie,

did I say I have a tendency to go off on one?

Should have said I aim for five degrees but do get threes and fours, all fine.

i was just wondering i have a 5yr old hermann tortoise and i really dont want to hibernaite him! im scared of what could happen what shouldi do?

Hello, I have 3 hermans and have just woken them from hibernation in their fridge. I am bathing them daily but they seem very tired and want to stay in their beds away from any heat. Temp in 10*. They are very healthy and lively when I bath them. Any advice or comments would be appreciated.