hi all just to let you no i make vivariums we have just finished one (size 4ft long 18"deep by 18" high three glass panels the middle panel is fixed) i am in north wales not far from chester i bought to horsefields with the viv the viv is 2"long 15"deep by 15"high it cost me £130 with lights if anyones interested we all so can make to measure the one we just finished would cost you £90 my email is bentaylor2703@yahoo.co.uk i can send you a pic by email if you wish cheers

Hi,

Firstly we do not accept advertising on the forum, secondly we strongly disagree with the use of vivariums as housing for any tortoise. Please take time to read our caresheets under the section "The Tortoise" in the lefthand column, here you will find the best set up for horsfield tortoises.

Please can we ask that you do not advertise on the forum.

Ali

TPG

sorry about that didnt know .Please can you tell me why you strongly disagree with vivariums ????????

i have taken a look at your cares sheets very interesting an helpful but still as my horsefields are only 3" long in a 4ft by 18"wide viv if water a little hide plants with about 4" of base for digging uvb an heat lamp also comes out on the floor with my kids very night an they seem to be very happy they walk to me at the sound of my voice i just cant see why they are so bad sorry if you disagree with me an again sorry for my 1st post

Hi Ben,

I think you'll find vivariums are a very touchy subject with experienced tortoise keepers who have seen at first hand the damage they can cause.
Firstly, due to lack of ventilation, they create an environment that it far too humid for a species of tortoise that has evolved in a low-humidity environment. This can result in respiratory problems, pneumonia and eventually their demise.

Unlike us and other mammals, who maintain our body temperature physiologically, reptiles must be permitted to manage their body temperatures themselves to meet their needs at a given time by seeking warmer or cooler areas of the environment. A vivarium set-up creates an almost one temperature; either too hot, too cold or a temperature that does not permit a tortoise to warm up properly to enable it to function properly or to cool down sufficiently to enable rest.
Tortoises are COLD-BLOODED and anyone who fully understands what this means will be able to understand why a vivarium set-up is NOT suitable for many species of tortoise. A tortoise that cannot attain access a basking area of around 30deg C cannot maintain its metabolism properly; digestion of food, immunity etc. At the same time a tortoise needs to escape this heat to cool down, a warm tortoise is an active tortoise with all bodily functions racing. We’ve had tortoises at the TPG that require rehoming that have spent their first few years of their lives in vivariums. They are literally stripped of their natural instinct to bask, due to spending their lives in an unnatural one temperature environment.

May I ask you please try something? When your vivarium has been running for a few hours, please measure the temperature directly under the heat source and then at the cool end, with an accurate thermometer – you’ll probably have to get another from somewhere. You’ll find that most vivariums sold are equipped with only one thermometer, stuck to the side of the vivarium. Again, anyone who knows about tortoises knows that only one static thermometer is a complete waste of time, particularly mounted in such a slapdash fashion, which makes you wonder exactly what it is supposed to be measuring?? – tortoises DO require a good range of temperatures and anyone who sells equipment incorporating this method of measuring the temperature, show a complete lack of understanding – please bear in mind that nearly all pet shops, garden centres etc are merely dealers and probably have little if any valuable experience of keeping tortoises other than for display prior to sale and there is a financial incentive for selling the vivariums.

It is also worth mentioning that tortoise cannot comprehend glass and will walk against it. What they cannot see to them is not there and they can become very frustrated and stressed by this.

Please do get back to us as we would really like to help, please do reconsider your housing, it really is not suitable at all.

Kindest Regards
Darren

cheers darren for your reply but am sorry if this gets up your noise i can understand what your saying but intil i see first hand that vivs are effecting mine ill take it back an hold my hands up an say i was wrong but as it stands i know two people who have kept horsefields for meny years in vivs an both have said there are very happy one of the owners said that she buts him out in the summer time back in the viv in winter time she has had the odd vet check but a part from that has lived a healthy life she has had him for ten years now like i said mine are only about 3" long an live in a viv size 4ft long by 15"deep 15" tall loads of space ill check the temp both sides an let you know am not been funny with you an yes i might be totaly wrong about it ill read up alot more about this but i sure theres alot more people with tortoise in viv than tables out there because of pet shop selling vivs

Ben,

I couldn't agree more about the number of people keeping tortoises in vivariums as opposed to tables due to pet shops.

The inexperienced dealer v the experienced keeper.

Profit margins v care

Ignorance v knowledge

One thing you won't find is people changing from tables to vivs - it isn't the same the other way around.

Think of it this way. Who can best determine what temperature the tortoise should be, the tortoise or us?

People need to understand the complexities of a reptile before making a decision on how they should be kept.

For instance many people think that when we fever it is an infection that raises the body temperature. This isn't the case it is our immune system that chooses to raise our body temperature to fight an infection. As warm-blooded animals we can do this. Reptiles cannot, they cannot control their body temperature physiologically as we do. They require an external heat source to raise their body temperature.

Our body can also cool down physiologically – an example of this is when we sweat. Tortoises cannot do this they need to move to a cooler area in order to cool down.

Vivarium v tortoises table – it doesn’t take an awful lot of working out to assess which offers a wider range of temperatures. The enclosed little ventilated vivarium or the open top well ventilated tortoise table.

I can completely understand your views on learning through practise, however it will be to the detriment of your tortoises.

BTW – last year we were involved in a court case where a pet shop was ordered to refund monies to a customer for selling a vivarium with a tortoise (inappropriate housing). The tortoise developed respiratory problems, then pneumonia. If it wasn’t for excellent veterinary care the tortoise would have died. We rehomed him to a new home with a nice tortoise table.

Hi,

Having just read the comments regarding the viv v tortoise table with interest.  I have to admit, i fell into the trap of owning a so called tortoise set up with vivarium.  I have had my tortoise Albert for three weeks. He seemed fine at first, but the last week, he started walking into the glass and was trying to dig himself out, as horsfields do. This causing him some stress and he was not happy at all. As a newbie to this and Albert was a gift for my birthday, didnt have much time to research. Until i spoken to these good people at the tpg.  I have recently put him into an open top table, still adding some home comforts for him, but the difference in him in the space of ten minutes of him being in his new home was incredible.  I have to firmly agree with the open top tables.  And will never go back to a viv.

hi as a new tortoise owner i am interested in all views about keeping tortoises. I have a specially made viv by my son who has kept reptiles for many years. After extensive research and weighing up the pros and cons we decided to go with a viv with extra vents across the top and sides. We have a thermostat with 2 sensors to keep a check on the 'hot' end and 'cool' end. We have a full spectrum UVB tube for permitting vitamin D3 and also a basking lamp.

The 'hot' end stays at 31c and the cool end stay between 20/21c. As far as my research goes these are ideal temps. All lights turned off at night.

The tortoises are happy, feeding well, and just been checked over and are healthy and growing well.

A relative has kept tortoises for over 40 years this way when they were young as as getting older they spend a lot of time outside when the weather is good and go to the viv at night. They hibernate every year with no problems.

I think vivs are fine if you can get the temperatures right. It isnt easy but can be done.

Hi i have recently purchased a horsfield tortoise and have him in a ventilated vivarium 3 sides are wooden with ventilation holes on either sides and on the back.The front has sliding glass doors. The temperature as you said at the hot end stays a constant 30c and cool end at 20. Having read all the reports after purchasing a viv i was extremely worried and decided to buy a tort table as well. I wondered about using both, using the viv in the winter as we live in a Victorian house which can get very cold in the winter and im concerned about a tortoise table stating warm enough over a cold winter.any views as I just want him to stay happy and healthy.