Please could you give me some advice

My herman tortoise yoda is two and a half yrs old and Im about to start our first hibernation process,as its the first time Ive done this but Im really worried about his health and if he's ready.

I weighed yoda on the 7/10/09 and he weighed 129 grams (hes just under three & a half inches long) The ratio was 0.18 and I was told he would be fine to hiberate.

I have weighed yoda today 04/11/09 as I was going to start his winding down process and hes weight now is 126 grams which works out as a ratio of 0.17 Im now really worried he can't hibernate this winter. he hasn't ate for around a week now and I really don't know if I should count the week he hasn't eatten as the winding down process before I start hibernation or try and getting eatting again.

Yoda seems fine in himself although he does want to sleep all the time, I bath him daily and all his eyes,ears and mouth all seem fine.

Please could you help

Many thanks

Hiya,

Are you using the Jackson Ratio?
If so this should only be used for Spur-Thighs (Testudo Graeca) & Hermanns (Testudo Hermanni)

HTH
Darren

Hi.  I think Darren must have been answering too mnay posts as he missed the bit where you said Yoda is a Hermann!!  I'm not one of the expert people on here but I keep Hermanns and have a wee bit of experience.

From your info I get 0.178 which is less than the ideal weight for hibernation but the ratio is very much just a guide.  If Yoda did not eat for a week already then that would count as part of the wind down (as long as he didn't eat at all). The 3 grammes that he lost over the past week is a really small amount, I bet his poo weighs that much, so I would not be so concerned about that especially as he wasn't eating during that time.

If Yoda is sleeping a lot even though you are keeping his temps and light at the same level then he maybe feels its time to wind down and hibernate.

I'm sure Darren or one of the other more expert people will be on shortly.  In the end its your own decision and one that most of us find a bit difficult especially with a tort that might be just very slightly light which is where I think Yoda is.

Jonathan

Doh - Thanks Jonathan:-)
Sorry, I've been dealing with a few Horsfields in-between:-)

As Jonathan said, the Jackson Ratio is a guide. If your tortoise has had a good, illness-free summer and has made a steady weight gain he should be fine. Would you please advise me of his length in cm?


Kindest Regards
Darren

Hi Darren

Yoda is 8.9cm long but he has had a munch on some little jems in the last two days.

Could I start the wind down process now or should I try and wait a little longer? I have also been told only to hibernate him for a month, do you think this is ok or should it be a little longer?

Many thanks

Hiya,

I would be inclined to see how he goes. If he has pretty much stopped eating and you intend to hibernate him, then consuming small amounts of food will only prolong the wind-down process. If he hasn't gained sufficient weight by now he won't be ready for hibernation this year - so waiting isn't a good idea. So long as he has made a steady weight gain over the summer, has been illness free and is healthy he should be fine. The length of hibernation depends on how well he fairs during the hibernation process. Weigh and check him regularly during the hibernation process to see how he is fairing.
One of the most frequent questions asked is "how much weight should my tortoise lose during wind-down" - is always difficult to ascertain how much weight a tortoise will lose during wind-down as it is dependent on the amount of undigested food they have in their stomachs; little food and the bodyfats will retain a heavier weight (less weight loss). If they are full of undigested food they will lose more weight during wind-down (greater weight loss).

http://www.tortoise-protection-group.org.uk/site/78.asp

HTH
Darren

Hi Darren

I think Im going to go ahead and start his hibernation as I didn't hibernate him last yr due to me only having him in late June, so today will be his first day. Ive just given him a bath and weighed him again so I can keep a record of how his hibernation is going.

1ST day of winding down :-   Yoda weighs 128grams his eyes, tail, ears and overall appearance seem fine.

If its ok for me to update you every few days or so to make sure Im doing everytime to make Yoda's first hibernation as safe as it can be.

 Many thanks for all your help and advice.

You're welcome:-)

PLease do keep us informed of Yoda's progress

TC
Darren

Hi Darren

Just an up date on Yoda

Day 6 of winding down process Yoda weighs 128 grams still, His eyes,ears and mouth are all ok.

All he wants is to sleep all day and even when I bath him he just lays there. Could I use retro boost when I bath him or would it be best not to? Ive now reduced his lights to 8 hrs a day.

Thanks

Hiya,

I'd be inclined to stick with the water only:-)

Sounds as though he's going to be a willing participant in the hibernation process:-)

TC
Darren

Hi Darren

Yoda weighs 127 grams ( he's now lost 1 gram since his wind down process)

Yoda is on his 10th day of his wind down process now and seems to be enjoying the amount of sleep he's getting. His eyes, ears and mouth are all clear and I'm still bathing him daily. At the moment he is sleeping under his light although he's not directly under it, could you tell me if this is ok for him? He's also loving his baths could please tell me how long should I leave him in for because I think he would stay there forever if I let him.

He still hasn't had a poo although around a week before I started this winding down process he had a huge one while bathing him and he had been off his food for a few weeks before. Tommorrow I'm reducing his lights to 4 hrs a day.

Many thanks for all your hel I'm very grateful

Hi,

Darren is out tonight so you've got me im afraid :-) It sounds like Yoda is a model tortoise for hibernation and that huge poo might of helped clear him out. Just carry on as you are as everything sounds fine, carry on bathing  its urates you need to look out for, if they poo while in hibernation then its not a real problem. Yoda sounds like he is doing just fine and you have a while before the big day :-)

Ali

Hi Darren

Ive got a small egg shaped fridge which I'm planing on using for Yoda's hibernation this yr can you tell me if this would be ok to use? Also I know its a silly question but do you think it will hold enough air for yoda or would I have to open the door daily?

Many thanks

Hi Darren/Ali

Ive got a small egg shaped fridge which I'm planing on using for Yoda's hibernation this yr can you tell me if this would be ok to use? Also I know its a silly question but do you think it will hold enough air for yoda or would I have to open the door daily?

Many thanks

Hi,

Im not sure what type of fridge you mean, is it like the small "camping" fridge? Could you please tell us the make and measurements? A fridge should be opened daily anyway to allow air flow :-)

Ali

Hi Ali

Yoda's fridge is a small desk top fridge which you can get from the Argos cat. Its a egg shaped frigde and its measurments are

6 inches length

5 inches width

10.5 inches height

Its reading a temp of 4 degrees constantly. It doesn't say what make it is i'm affraid, I hope this will be suitable for him .

Many thanks

Hi,

I really wouldn't like to say. As far as I'm aware there isn't any scientific data relating to air consumption in hibernation. I'm assuming any such data would be related to a tortoise’s size, making it even more difficult to correlate.

Personally, it isn’t the sort of fridge I would use. The compressor in a fridge is usually related to the size of the fridge and whilst it is maintaining a steady temperature now, once you place your tortoise in the fridge it would no doubt struggle to cool down your tortoise. It is prior to cooling down and entering hibernation that a tortoise uses the largest quantities of air. Personally I would look to use a good quality fridge manufactured by a reputable company.

I’m sure there are others that are good, personally, I tend to recommend the small Husky fridges:-

http://www.shopwiki.co.uk/Husky+Budweiser+Branded+Personal+Drinks+Fridge+HM72

purely because I know of a lot of people who have used these successfully.

Sorry not to be more positive

TC
Darren

Hi Darren/ Ali

Thanks for all the advice I  can't thank you guys enough. I've just got an update on Yoda's progress.

Day 15 of winding down process Yoda weighs 127 grams ( a total loss of 1 gram since I began his wind down process)

Yoda sleeps all day and still has his daily bath which he enjoys. He still hasn't had a poo and when I bath him there is no white this will be the forth day since he has had any. Yoda's eyes, ears, mouth and over all apperance look fine.

From tommorw his light will be off and he has five days left before hibernation.

Thanks

If this is the fridge i think it is they should only be run for 12 hours at a time. So it wouldn't be any good for hibernation.

No probs, Iv'e sorted a new fridge and have just given Yoda his last bath which he loved and was in it for a whole 30 mins in which he had some white come from him and a small poo the size of a pea. Will I have to extend his wind down by two extra days now he's had a poo or will he still be ok to put in his fridge sat?

Many thanks

No probs, Iv'e sorted a new fridge and have just given Yoda his last bath which he loved and was in it for a whole 30 mins in which he had some white come from him and a small poo the size of a pea. Will I have to extend his wind down by two extra days now he's had a poo or will he still be ok to put in his fridge sat?

Many thanks

Hiya,

If Yoda is clear today and tomorrow, I'd be inclined to put him in hibernation tomorrow evening

HTH
TC
Darren

Hi Darren

I gave Yoda his last bath this morning and all was clear, Ive now just put him in his box ready for the fridge and have taken a few photos to make sure I'm doing everything ok.

Cheers

Yoda is in the fridge and all boxed up, temp reads 4 degrees and when I gave him his last check all was ok and he weighed 125 grams he was really sleepy with his eyes all shut.

lets keep our fingers crossed everything goes ok.

Hi Darren could you tell me how often I should check and weigh Yoda.

Cheers

Hi

My smaller tortoises I weigh and check over weekly, and I do lift the lid of the box each day when I open the fridge, just to check they havnt tipped over or anything.  The adults are weighed and checked over about once a month, although I do a quick visual check on them almost daily.

HTH

Arlene TPG

Hi everyone

Just an update on Yoda's hibernation. Day 7 and all is ok, I check on Yoda daily and Ive just weighed and gave him a good check over. All is ok and he now weighs 123grams which is a 2 gram loss in a week.The fridge has only moved from 4-6 degrees all wk which I'm really pleased with.

That sounds really good:-)
Hibernation will fly by:-)

TC
Darren

Hi all

Just an update on Yoda.

Day 14 Yoda is loving his hibernation and I'm really pleased that everything is going to plan. I'm checking on him every two days just to make sure everything ok. Weighed him sunday and hes 123 grams no weight loss in a week His eyes, nose tail, ears and overall appearance are fine and the frigde temp is reading a constant 5 degrees.

Hi all just an update on Yoda

Day 20 and Yoda weighs 122 grams a loss of 1 gram in a week, his eyes,ears, and overall appearance looks fine although he did have a small poo the size of a pea when I checked him all over today but no sign of urinating. Please could you tell me if its still safe enough for him to continue his hibernation as hes only got a week left?

Many thanks

Hi - yes as long as he hasnt wee'ed, it will be fine to leave him.  A months hibernation is pretty short really, as he is doing so well and has lost only a very small amount of weight, perhaps you might want to think about leaving him a bit longer - I tend to aim for about 8 weeks for a first hibernation with my little ones, as long as all is well with them,

all the best

Arlene TPG

Hi Arlene

That was my next question as I was only told by my vet to leave him for four weeks as its his first hibernation but as Iv'e been looking at the forums and I see that people leave them alot longer. My vet is Mike Jessop of Ash vets which is listed on your website. Would it be ok for me to leave him a few mre weeks as long as I keep an eye on him?

Hi

I would do if it was me, keep checking him weekly, and as long as he is still OK, and not losing too much weight, aim for the 8 weeks, but obviously be prepared to get him up earlier if need be :)

Arlene TPG

Many thanks for your help I'm going to aim for eight weeks and see how it goes. I can't get over how much I'm missing him .

Cheers

Hi all

Just an up date on Yoda's hibernation

Weighed him Sunday and he's now 121 grams a total loss of 4 grams since he's been in the fridge and a total of 8 grams since he last had food, is this weight loss ok for his first hibernation? His eyes,ears, nose and over all apperance looks fine. Also does anyone have a winter list of what he could eat once he comes out of hibernation.

Many thanks

Hi all

Just an up date on Yoda's hibernation

Weighed him Sunday and he's now 121 grams a total loss of 4 grams since he's been in the fridge and a total of 8 grams since he last had food, is this weight loss ok for his first hibernation? His eyes,ears, nose and over all apperance looks fine. Also does anyone have a winter list of what he could eat once he comes out of hibernation.

Many thanks

Hi

I work on a percentage of body weight loss during hibernation, and for the little ones, I will get them up if it gets to around 5 - 6%.  Yoda was 125g when he went in the fridge, - 5% would be about 6g, so I would want to get him up if he lost around 6 - 8g, so once his weight got to around 118/119g.

One thing I find useful with mine is to put a label on the hibernation box with the 'going in fridge' weight on.  I then work out about 6% of that, deduct it, and write the 'Get Up' weight on the label too - saves trying to work it out each time you do the weigh and check.  Of course, weight loss is not the only indicator as you say, checking eyes, ears nose etc is equally important.

Re food, you may be surprised at how many dandelions, plantains etc may be surviving in sheltered pockets of your garden - if you do need to resort to the supermarket, steer clear of brassicas (cabbage, cauli leaves etc), beans and peas.  Kos or romaine lettuce and rocket is quite close to wild foods, small amounts of watercress are OK.

Hope this helps, and roll on Spring, the snow is falling outside at the moment and is abuot 6 inches deep already!

all the best

Arlene

Hi all

Just to let you all know I'm waking Yoda up today from hibernation, I've just taken him from the fridge and hes on the table in his box. I've taken a photo of Yoda's new home could you just have a look to see if it looks all ok for him. Also a huge thank you to everyone who has helped me and Yoda through our first hibernation we couldnt of done it without you.

Many thanks

Hiya,

People often have different ideas on set-ups:-)
Just a couple of things I’d look at. I wouldn’t put anything so close to the lamp that your tortoise might climb up on it and fall onto its back under the lamp. Broken slate/stones under the heat source is preferable to a flat stone as it will provide purchase so your tortoise can right itself if your tortoise does turn over in the vicinity of the lamp.
I would place the UVB tube as close to the heat source as possible. A tortoise will be attracted to the heat source and so will benefit from both UVB and heat if placed closer together. A shade on the tube will direct the harmful light away from your eyes and benefit your tortoise also.
Stones or broken slate around the water dish will help keep the water in the dish clean by limiting the amount of soil carried into the dish.

How’s Yoda doing today?

HTH
TC
Darren

Hi Darren

Many thanks for the advice I will get it changed straight away for Yoda's safety.

Yoda seems really weak which is understandable but he has eaten a small amount of little jems and a few bites of cherry tom's which he loves although I know there not very good for him, and he really enjoyed his first bath although since then he just wants to hide inside his shell while he's having a bath. I'm using retroboost in his baths at the moment is this ok? He woke up ok and I followed all the instructions on waking your tortoise from hibernation which was so helpful. I'm really pleased with how well he's been for his first hibernation and I can't thank you all enough for all your help I'm so grateful.

Could you tell me how long I should leave it before I can try and get him eatting the correct food and also have you any suggestions on what I can give him which would be better than little jems, Iv'e tried him on rocket but he won't touch it.

Hi, so glad to hear the hibernation went ok, here is a link to an article produced by the Tortoise Trust which details good foods for the winter diet http://www.tortoisetrust.org/enews/

Hope this helps, regards Vivienne