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adult/juvenille
Posted: 25/10/2009 by winnie

Silly question btu what do I class my horsfield at at 6+ years, adult or juvenille. Just asking so I know what wind down procedure to follow.

Re: adult/juvenille
Posted: 25/10/2009 by tortoise7

Hi
If I am correct Hatchlings are 0-5yr- Juvenilles 5-11 yrs and adults 11 and over.
Jane

 

 

 

Re: adult/juvenille
Posted: 25/10/2009 by winnie

Because no one knows her age and the vet says at the youngest she's 6 years would doing the juvenille wind down do her any harm if she could be an adult?. Does that make sense?

Re: adult/juvenille
Posted: 25/10/2009 by tortoise7

Hi Winnie
The length of Winddown is make sure that the all food has passed through, as Hatchlings are small it takes about 3 wks, adults 4-5 wks depending on size and weight, so 4 wks should be spot on I would guess for your little one, but I am sure someone else will be able to verify that for you.
Thanks
Jane

Re: adult/juvenille
Posted: 26/10/2009 by TPGDarren

Hi Winnie,

The hatchling,juvenile etc is a guideline and the wind-down period is more weight relative than age.
Would you please remind me the weight of your tortoise please?

Kindest Regards
Darren

Re: adult/juvenille
Posted: 29/10/2009 by winnie

Hi Darren, Queenie is now down to 343g and dropping. She was 352g at the start of her wind down on 20/10

Re: adult/juvenille
Posted: 29/10/2009 by TPGDarren

Hi Winnie,

She will lose a certain amount of weight through bowl movements. This amount isn't excessive.

HTH
Darren

Re: adult/juvenille
Posted: 30/10/2009 by winnie

Thanks Darren, I've just been to argos to order my fridge for Queenie but I have noticed it's got a very small ice compartment in the top corner, is this still ok to use?, it's the value buy from argos that somebody else mentioned they were getting. I've been all around the shops today Currys, Comet etc and they're all the same.

Re: adult/juvenille
Posted: 30/10/2009 by TPGDarren

Hi Winnie,

The ice box may make it difficult to stabilise the temperature. Having something so close to a hibernating tortoise that has the capability to freeze isn't something that's recommended and would make me nervous.

Though I haven't used them myself for tortoise hibernation, I do know of people that have successfully hibernated tortoises in the mini Stella Artois fridges. I'm not sure how much a new fridge costs, but these retail at around 100.00. They are made by Huskey, who have a good reputation in refrigeration manufacturing. The large double door Coca Cola type fridge we use to hibernate our lot is manufactured by them
It might be worth checking out a Stella fridge as they seem to be far more reliable than other mini fridges. I just had a quick look on the internet and they refrigerate to 2 deg C.

Just a thought

HTH
Darren


Re: adult/juvenille
Posted: 02/11/2009 by winnie

I was just wandering if I could double check that the fridge I've bought for Queenies big sleep is ok. I know I've asked before and was told it may not be suitable but it's the same one mentioned in the post titled "fridge" by trudytort (Sara) and she was told it's ok. It was delivered today and I don't want to set it up if it's no good and time is running short. It has got what looks like a tiny freezer part? in the top corner (doesn't go right across the top), it's the value one from Argos, page 606 I think for 79.99. Would it help if I put thick polystyrene around the freezer part if that's what it is?

Re: adult/juvenille
Posted: 02/11/2009 by TPGDarren

Hi Winnie,

I've just looked at the post, there was obviously some confusion as the post does mention not having a freezer section:-(.
I have heard of people segregating off the freezer compartment using polystyrene, but I have to say it would make me feel very uneasy about having something only a foot or so away that has the capability of reaching sub-zero temperatures. Can the ice-box be disabled at all? I would imagine it would run on a separate system to the actual fridge itself, a sort of freezer within a fridge?

Re: adult/juvenille
Posted: 02/11/2009 by winnie

Hi Darren, I don't think by the looks of it that the freezer part could be disconnected, although I'm not the sharpest knife in the draw when it comes to things like this but what I do know is that this gives me a bit of a dilema. Queenie is nearing the end of week 3 of her wind down and I'm in work now for 7 days which doesn't really give me any time to get a new fridge bought and up and running for a week before use???????

Very unhygenic I know but could I use my own fridge as a stop gap providing the temps are ok.

Re: adult/juvenille
Posted: 02/11/2009 by tpgAli

Hi Winnie,

I do know your dilema as ive been there myself and i once had to go out and get myself a fridge 2 days before my lot were due to go in. It really wouldnt hurt if Queenie went a few days over the wind down period as long as you keep her in a cool place. You can have a fridge up and running in no time. I personally wouldnt put her in a fridge that you use for every day use as for starters this isnt very hygenic and also you use your fridge all the time so therefore you are opening it all the time. I have a separate fridge to hibernate my lot and i stock it up with alcohol which suits me fine :-)

Ali

Re: adult/juvenille
Posted: 02/11/2009 by TPGDarren

I have to stock my double door coca-cola fridge with beer all summer just to have it run efficiently:-) - the sacrifices we have to make:-)

Re: adult/juvenille
Posted: 02/11/2009 by TPGDarren

Hi Winnie,

I can see your dilemma, if you keep her cool, as Al suggested, it will keep her weight loss down to a minimum.
Sorry Winnie - I'm not sure what else to suggest?

Argos do sell the small Husky beer fridges which a friend has been using recently and they seem to keep a very good stable temperaure. They're available in Argos too - not sure what the opening hours are this time of year?


Re: adult/juvenille
Posted: 02/11/2009 by tpgAli

Yep its a nightmare, ive had to find a new home for the 48 cans of Stella i had in mine, the 4 bottles of wine can stay as they are sitting in the try on the door :-)

 

Re: adult/juvenille
Posted: 02/11/2009 by winnie

Really sorry to let the side down guys but my jumbo jar of nescafe requires no refridgeration (unlike my tortoise). Looks like I'll have to do some creeping and find out if I can get some one to go back to Argos for me to see if I can get another fridge. Hope they'll give me a refund on the one I've got!

Thanx for the help and advice guys.

I am on the TPG site aren't I?, not the AA???

Re: adult/juvenille
Posted: 02/11/2009 by TPGDarren

:-)

Good Luck with Argos Winnie.
You may well get a few strange looks when you tell them what the fridge is for and why it's not the correct one though:-)

TC
Darren

Re: adult/juvenille
Posted: 03/11/2009 by winnie

I thought I read somewhere that if I use a fridge with a glass door for hibernation I have to cover the glass so the temps stay ok. Is this right or is it a wind up?

Re: adult/juvenille
Posted: 03/11/2009 by TPGDarren

Hi Winnie,

As they will be in boxes anyway and in hibernation they shouldn't be too bothered about any light getting into the fridge.
Providing the temps are OK it's not imperative, though I tend to cover up my glass doors with polystyrene for extra insulation, so it runs more efficiently.
So yes, but it should work OK without doing it.

HTH
Darren

Re: adult/juvenille
Posted: 04/11/2009 by winnie

Got the day off work and went to Argos to get my fridge (2nd time round). This time I bought the correct fridge, small Husky beer fridge, thanks Darren. If there's anyone out there getting their first fridge could I just mention, make sure you check in the sales catalogue before you buy. The one I've just bought was in the main catalogue for 119.99 but I came across it in the christmas sales catalogue for 107. Hope this helps save someone a few pennies.

PS: you were right about the funny looks Darren!

Re: adult/juvenille
Posted: 04/11/2009 by TPGDarren

LOL - how are the temps Winnie?

Darren

Re: adult/juvenille
Posted: 05/11/2009 by winnie

Hi Darren, the temps are fluctuating quite a bit, it's up to 8.2c at the mo and the lowest it's gone has been around 6.2c but I did have it on number 2 so I've turned it down to 1 to see how it goes. Still need to get my other thermometre, the shop didn't have enough in stock apparently. Have put it in the kitchen as this is the coldest part of the house (no one thought it justified a radiator, hence why I've turned into a kettle hugger, ha). Do I put the probe on the thermometre into the box that I put Queenie in? and do I have to put her in a box within a box or is 1 box ok. I've put some bottles of water in coz I've heard this helps to keep a more stable temp. The leaflet says the coldest part is the back of the fridge and it's got just 1 shelf in the middle, do I take out this shelf and put her box on the bottom and what's the best to use in the box, shredded paper or her soil/sand mix.

Re: adult/juvenille
Posted: 06/11/2009 by tpgAli

Hi Winnie,

Glad you got the fridge sorted at lastClick and drag me down to the editor the temps will fluctuate for a while until they settle and the more you can fill it up the less it will fluctuate. I tend to place the probe end of the digital thermometre in the box with the tortoise, i tape it to the inside so they dont get it caught round their legs if they move about but its near enough to get an accurate reading. Sand/soil is a good substrate to use especially for horsfields i find.

Ali

Re: adult/juvenille
Posted: 06/11/2009 by winnie

Hi Ali,

Don't know if this is a silly question but does it matter what size the box is. The one I've got is big enough for her to turn around and is deep enough for her to dig down, once she's at the bottom of the box she'll be covered by 1-2 inchs (poss a bit more) of substrate, is this enough?. Also do I put in damp soil or does it go into her box dry?

Re: adult/juvenille
Posted: 06/11/2009 by tpgAli

Hi Winnie,

The only silly question is the one thats not asked! So never feel bad about asking ok? :-) The box has to be big enough for them to be able to move about so yours sounds fine, i would be inclined to fill it as deep as you can especially for a horsfield as they love to burrow deep down but the soil has to be dried out before you put her in to avoid any respiratory problems or shell rot during hibernation, the sand will help to dry it out quicker and i place mine on top of the radiator in a container which helps to dry it easier.

Ali

Re: adult/juvenille
Posted: 07/11/2009 by winnie

Thanks Ali,

Now all I have to do is try and sort out this thermometre. The temps are really flickering which I know I've been told they will but they seem to be nearer the top end close to 10c which is a bit of a worry. I don't really do technical stuff, bit of a durr when it comes to this!

Re: adult/juvenille
Posted: 07/11/2009 by TPGDarren

Hi Winnie,

Have you worked out which way the fridge thermostat works?

Is it higher a number for the lower temperature?, or visa-versa?

I've been recentlky talking to a friend and member that managed to get his running very stable. Will check with him if you get stuck

TC
Darren

Re: adult/juvenille
Posted: 07/11/2009 by winnie

Hi Darren,

I've put it right down to no 1 now and the temps are still high. In the leaflet it says

winter(5-10C/41-50F)-setting 1-2

spring and autumn(10-15C/50-59F)-setting 2-4

summer(15-25C/59-77F)-setting 4-5

What I was thinking of doing was filling her box with substrate with the probe in to see if it gives a better reading. Is this what I should of done in the first place?

Re: adult/juvenille
Posted: 08/11/2009 by TPGDarren

Hi Winnie,

You need to gee the fridge completely set-up as it would be when you add your tortoise.

Place the box in the fridge with your substrate and put the problbe inside the substrate in the box, this will be the temperature your tortoise is at. Adding bottled water to the fridge will help stabilise the fridge temperatiure. Water is much more dense than air and so will maintain a constant temperature and the fridge will run more efficiantly. You can also use a polybox. This will again help stabilise the temperature. Small fish boxes can be obtained from fish counters in most supermarkets. It's a good idea to leave them out in the rain to rid them of the smell:-)


HTH
Darren

Re: adult/juvenille
Posted: 08/11/2009 by winnie

Hi Darren, I've put bottles of water in (did this as soon as I set up fridge). Yesterday evening, about 7pm, I put in her box (it's a tupperware one) with the probe and substrate in. It was reading over 12c at that point, this morning it was down to 10c. I've just come home for some lunch and checked it again, it was down to 9c but it's started to go back up slightly. I've not opened the door or moved the fridge so am totally baffled. To top it all off I gave Queenie her final bath yesterday in luke warm water and since then she's been up and about and not wanting to bed back down. Please tell me what I'm doing wrong!


Queenie now weighs 338g. She was 352g at the start of her wind down 20/10 and she is due to go into the fridge tommorrow. I'm so sorry for being a pain but am starting to get panicy and upset as the last thing I want to do is cause her any harm.


I can get access to a walk in cold room which has the ability to be set at any choice of temp so don't know whether this would be any good though I'm not the only person who has access to this but I'd much rather have her hibernating in my own home.


Any advise for a stupid worry-wart like myself would be hugely appreciated.

Re: adult/juvenille
Posted: 08/11/2009 by TPGDarren

Hi Winnie,

I've dropped Andy a mail to see if he'll look in as I believe he has the same fridge as you (pphoto above) and has achieved the temperatures OK.

Have you got a photo of the fridge please? The bottled water is good for stabilising the temps, but if there are too many it will stop the air moving within the fridge.

What number have you got your fridge set at?

I've read up on the Husky/Stella type fridge and it says it achieves temps of 2deg - which is ideal for the lowest temperature.

TC
Darren

Re: adult/juvenille
Posted: 08/11/2009 by winnie

Hi Darren, the fridge in the photo you sent looks the same as mine only I think mine is a little smaller. I've got the setting on number 1. I've got her box on the top shelf with 3 bottles of water at the side and I've filled 8 milk bottles up with water and put them on the bottom. I'll take a photo of the fridge tonight but won't be able to post it till tommorrow as I have to get one of the girls in work to do it for me. Have double checked in the Argos catalogue and it definately says it chills down to 2c. The good thing is that Queenie has bedded down again so that's a relief but I'm not sure how much longer she can go before being fridged as I would think that I can't fridge her till the temps sre ok. What do you think on her weight, is it ok?. The other thing I was going to ask is when I put her in her box do I put the substrate on top of her or leave her to dig down. If I leave her to dig down then I'll have to take out a good deal of soil or I won't get the lid on.

Re: adult/juvenille
Posted: 08/11/2009 by AndyBlann

Hi there, Don't panic that's the first thing to be sure of.

All I reckon the problem is, is that you're going the wrong way with your fridge thermostat.

On my 50 Litre "Husky" fridge the Higher the number on the thermostat means the lower the temperature is inside the fridge.

My dial is set between 4 and 5 on the thermostat and that is giving me 5.5 degrees inside the containers that house my "charges" Molly is in one box & Lilly is in the other.

Try altering the thermostat & see what readings you get then.

Re: adult/juvenille
Posted: 09/11/2009 by winnie

Every one should have a durrr and yep, that's me!

I've moved the dial on the fridge to between 4 and 5 and you were right, the temp dropped. It went down to 4c so I've turned it  to between 3 and 4, hopfully this little tweak will bring it closer to 5c.

A big, huge, massive thanks to Darren and Andy for putting up with me. Should I leave the fridge to settle an extra day or is she ok to go in (she should of gone in today). In her box do I put her on top of substrate or in the middle.

Re: adult/juvenille
Posted: 09/11/2009 by TPGDarren

LOL

It's not such an uncommon mistake Winnie Click and drag me down to the editor

I'd be inclined to monitor the fridge temps for 24 hours. 4-5c is absolutely perfect. There will be a little fluctaution in the fridge temps anyway.

 

Glad it worked out  Click and drag me down to the editor

 

Andy...cheers mate for your help with the fridge setting

 

All the Best

Darren

 

Re: adult/juvenille
Posted: 21/12/2009 by Doug Keen

Hi there,

The Argos Husky/Stella unit looks interesting. How many adult torts will they take?

We have 8 adults, therefore will 2 of these applainces be enough? Alternatively is there a larger unit that will be suitable? My thoughts are that 2 units may be better for temperature stabilization, a larger unit may suffer excessively from top to bottom temp variations? For the last 20 odd years we have used the garage method but it it cost up to 2-32 a day to heat the garage to the necessary minimum and even then I have to bring the boxes inside during severe weather.

Regards - Doug.

Re: adult/juvenille
Posted: 28/12/2009 by winnie

Hi Doug, the one that I got is only a small one. By the time I got my Horsfield in and then put in my bottles of water there wasn't much space left. You def wouldn't get 3 torts in there let alone 8. Don't know if they do bigger ones, they probably do. Soz about replying so late but only just come across your post.

Re: adult/juvenille
Posted: 02/01/2010 by Doug Keen

Thanks for that, you confirmed what I suspected which was that even 2 of these units would not be enough for 8 adults.

There are larger units available, however a single large unit would most likely have an unacceptable temperature difference between top and bottom.

There must be someone else out there who has a similar situation to us - does anyone have any gems of wisdom?

Regards - Doug.

Re: adult/juvenille
Posted: 02/01/2010 by TPGDarren

Hi Doug,

It sounds as though you're going to have to go for a single larger fridge and forget the idea of the smaller fridges.

 

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