Hi Everyone, My wife & I have 3 lovely Hermanns Torts & we are looking for our final one. The breeder we have got all of our current 3 from tells me that if we are looking for a specific sex, Then they can sex them by a DNA test. They advised that they may have to test a couple to get the sex we were after (Female) at a cost of £14 per test.. Is this possible?.. or a scam?.. as if it was possible, Then my wife & I would be doing the company a favour by getting a few sexed for them at our expense.. Thanks for any help...

Hello,
Interesting. Can I ask the age & sex of your torts & which sex are you wanting to go with them ?
Regards
Tom

Hello again Tom, I have 2 males of 3 years and 1 female of 2-3 years.. I could do with another female, So as not to have the only female we have getting stressed by our male(s).. I was told by an longstanding expert that I could do with a minimum of 2 females.. So My wife and I are currently looking..

Also, getting another female would complete our family, As you can see from the photo, All our babies get on well together and don't fight at all which is nice. The 2 boys have grown up together and all 3 like to snuggle up together at night times.

Good to get your reply,
Are you sure of their sex, at only 2 or 3 years of age? Your 'expert' seems to have taken a minimal stance.
Re. the DNA testing, I'm surprised that a breeder should make such a statement. I suggest you say that you are prepared to pay the £28, (2 tests needed), when you receive a copy of the lab. results.
I'll reply to your further post separately
Tom

Unfortunately 2 males & 2 females when adult ( or sub-adult) don't make a happy family.
I can see your way of thinking and I admire your enthusiasm,
indeed it is refreshing for me to get a reply, since it is rare.
Please come back with further questions.
Regards
Tom

Hi Tom, Yes we are sure of the sex of all of our Tortoises.. Titan (hatched 2009) Showed us his penis at 2 and half years old (it was huge...lol) same with Tian (hatched 2010) has also done the same, But not as big as Titan's. Our Female Mylee (hatched 2010) has also been sexed and does Not have a spur or displayed a penis.. Just a very short stump... Have a look at the next photo... of all 3 of our babies together, from left to right, Titan (Male).. Tian (Male) and Mylee (female). The person that i call an expert ( of which I admire and respect him) is also a member of this forum and has over 30 years experience. I will not mention names, But he has sexed all of our family members 100% as he knows his subject. Upon his suggestion, I was told that our home setup i.e table (their Sunbathing area and Bedroom..lol) was perfect , as well as the outside area. And that due to having 2 males, we require a minimum of 2 females or the lonesome female with become stressed due to being harassed all the time.. Titan (Male) always smells Mylee (female) and tries to bite her back legs and have sex with her, and also chases her around.. He doesn't did this with Tian (male).. I admire my expert for helping to try and reintroduce the rare Western Hermanni Hermanni and has my utmost respect. As I said before, He has never been wrong before.. I sent a few pictures to him of a very young hermanns last week from a pet shop hoping that it could be a female.. But it was only hatched in 2011/12 and was very small... to my wife and I , It looked like a female.. the convexed plastron and other features.. as I am learning very fast on this subject now as it has always interested me.. The person I call expert says it looks like a female, But due to it's age it could change.. but he did say it looked more female than male.. we never purchased it for our family on his guidance as can't be sure. Hope that young one gets a nice family and is treated well. I personally would love to save every tortoise if I could from any harm but I know I can't.. which does upset me, when certain races treat them as food.. I hate these people... Sorry for ranting on.. Please see my photo, Please find that I have excluded a small section of the plastrons in the picture due to them being their finger prints, and would hope that anyone ( not you) but anyone else using them as Identification as their own. sorry for being over protective. I can't seem to upload photo due to " Server.MapPath() error 'ASP 0174 : 80004005'

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Hi again Tom, In ways i can see what you mean... I really could do with more females to male ratio.. But even thou I have 7 children in total.. I can't see everyone of our very much loved tortoises being cared for IF i were to get more than 4 in total (2 males and 2 females.. As my children do love them also, But it's not just them.. it will also involve their future children, As you and I both know .. Tortoises are a lifetime commitment. Of which I am in the process to compiling a book of each of my babies, so future generations of my family know what to do, how to look after them, and what each individual tortoise likes and dislikes.. They all eat greens.. dandelions, endives, rocket...etc.. but Titan loves Clovers more than Tian and mylee, even thou they still get them offered. We originally picked our babies because of their own personalities they exhibited when we seen them.. Anyone who says tortoises don't have individual personalities, Don't know their tortoises. 200,000 years of evolution into a lovely creature... As I say, Perfection in such a small package.. and give me a reason to try and live a long life to see them grow up.

I now see that they are huge, for their age. So yes, no prob to sex. With a more normal growth rate, it's not possible. They look well anyway. Why I say your expert's advice was minimal, is that even with 2 females, you will have to separate off the males, at some stage. If a female becomes gravid at much under 2kg, the consequences can be dire. At that size,your torts are sub-adult already. The biting & attempts to mate will become more agressive, the 'boney' tip of the males tail can cause serious damage to the cloaca of the female, as well as to the area between the top of her tail, where it meets the inside of the carapace. If not noticed & treated with (eg) iodine/povidine solution, fly strike leads to maggots eating their way into the female, from the back to the front end. Yes, horrific.
I'm surprised that as a TPG member, you are contemplating buying from a pet shop.
Re T.h.h. their problem is largely habitat destruction & fragmentation due to new roads & development, forest fires, as well as collecttion for the black market pet trade (another good reason to avoid buying from pet traders). SOPTOM has bred & re-introduced many in S. France, but not without controversy.
Regards
Tom

I know they feel like babies to you - but at the size they are, babies they are not. Be patient with wanting a 2nd female, why not go on the TPG re-homing list, you could take on one older than three.
All the best anyway, it's good to chat to a real enthusiast.
Keep us informed.
Tom

Hi Tom, We have just turned down buying a female.. Not on anyone's guidance, But need to carry on with making my outside enclosure to be as secure as I can for the young ones I have.. I have more mesh and even more plants now.. I am in the middle of building an even larger foot printed table a 3 level like a multi storey car park..lol. They currently have an over 4 feet by over 3 feet 2 storey high table at the moment.. As I said a while back, Titan 4 years (male) was hatched in 2009... Tian 3 years (male) was hatched in 2010 and Měilì 3 years (female) was hatched also in 2010.. I keep forgetting that, and still think of their ages at the time we got them. So by the time we get everything sorted.. we would be looking at a 5 year old female. They are large as I understated their ages. They are healthy, they love their greens.. and they getting as much outside time (weather permitting) as they can.. I am from Scotland.. So we get more liquid sunshine (rain) than we do real sun.. But when out They love it.. I never leave them unattended and watch them like a hawk.. As to some people, Tortoises just mean money.. But to us, they are family. By the definition of babies.. All our 7 children have grown up, But we still call them our babies. Our 3 lovely Hermanns mean the same to us.. and are irreplaceable . other animals are pets and can last up to 20 years.. Tortoise's aren't pets, they are members of a family and a life long commitment as they can out live 2 -3 generations as you & I know. . So yes, I regard them as my babies.. My first born son died when he was 9 months of encephilius way back in 1988 ( So children count should have been 8) he is always on our minds, and is irreplaceable.. We may have paid money to purchase our tortoises, But I don't say I OWN them.. I just regard myself as their Guardian until I pass away for the next Generation to be Guardians.. As no life is ever to be owned. Tortoises make our family happy to see them every day, and to say good night to.. and to give me 3 more reasons to live for.. Sorry for rambling, and getting really philosophical .. But Just how I feel towards torts.. I take on board everything you have suggested, and will take that into consideration. Thank you Tom for your help and guidance.